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Newsgroups: rec.music.progressive,alt.rock-n-roll.metal.
progressive,rec.answers,alt.answers,news.answers
From: Phil Kime 
Subject: rec.music.progressive Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 03:00:04 GMT
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                   ================================
                   Welcome to rec.music.progressive
                   ================================

rec.music.progressive passed its CFV on 2nd May 1995. It is the
successor of alt.music.progressive and supersedes it. Being a rec.*
group, it has much wider distribution than a.m.p had and is aimed at
generating and disseminating discussion of progressive and
non-mainstream music with a wider audience than was previously the
case. The FAQs have been registered with news.answers and thus are
"official" in the only real sense of the word applicable to FAQs.

This FAQ is an introduction intended to give some idea of the scope
of discussions that the group supports. It attempts to present a
relatively uncontroversial and illuminating picture of what is meant
by the term "progressive music" as commonly understood in the group.

                      --------------------------
                      What is Progressive Music?
                      --------------------------

"Progressive rock was what happened in the early 70's when certain
brilliant instrumentalists got fed up with playing three-and-a-half
minute long songs about teenage love.  Unfortunately, this led them
to start playing ten-and-a-half minute long songs about nothing in
particular."

-- Geoff Nicholson, `Big Noises: Rock Guitar in the 1990s', Quadrant
Books, 1991.

Humour aside, there are probably as many answers as there are people
reading this, and all answers contain some insight into the question
and concepts involved. The word "progressive" has been defined to
mean "forward moving", "widening in scope", "changing in increments"
and so on. However, in order to understand what is meant by
"progressive music", one must look beyond the dictionary to the usage
it has in circles where the term is common currency. Hereafter, we
shall forgo the scare-quotes and fearlessly use the term
"progressive" with wanton abandon as this should help reduce any
reservations that people feel about the more irrelevant connotations.
You will often see the term "progressive rock" used as a term
intended to cover the same field as "progressive music". "progressive
rock" is a common phrase that is generally not meant to restrict the
concept to rock-related examples. Indeed, you sometime see, for
example, people refer to ambient Eno as "progressive rock". Please
remember this is now a mnemon

For terms of discussion on rec.music.progressive(r.m.p), most
progressive music is based to some degree on: 70's Art Rock,
Canterbury, Psychedelic, Fusion, Krautrock, Classical Rock, Folk,
Space Rock, RIO, and Zeuhl Music (for a definition of these terms,
see FAQ 4) and/or many other forms of music that mainstream music is,
in many cases, completely oblivious of. Recently, in the last 10-15
years, the mainstream media has used the word progressive to describe
college music, alternative pop, and other forms of music. While this
is a common use of the word, it is not the use we are referring to on
this newsgroup. If you are reading this for the first time and you
feel progressive music focuses on bands such as The Smiths, The Cure,
Red Hot Chili Peppers, Nirvana, and/or one of the many bands
showcased on MTV's "120 Minutes" or "Alternative Nation", you will
probably prefer to read alt.music.alternative.

Naturally, one of the first desires of someone approaching this area
is to find some characteristic that defines a given piece of music as
progressive. Unfortunately, as is the case with most concepts, there
is certainly no one feature that all music deemed progressive share.
However, this detracts nothing from the comfortable use of the word
on r.m.p. Why might this be? There are two reasons I think. Firstly,
the word is best defined in its use by people versed in uttering it.
This is the case with many words and the time-worn Wittgenstein
comments regarding the impossibility of providing a definition that
specifies all and only all of things that answer to the concept
"game" are germane here. All games share no single feature that does
not allow non games under the concept as well. So it is with
"progressive". Not all progressive music shares a common
characteristic but one can trace commonalties between arbitrary
instances of the term, thus creating a huge web of interconnected
instances.

As mentioned above, the reason there is so much disagreement about
what music is progressive and how progressive it really is, is that
the term is used to describe many ostensibly different styles of
music. Many innovative and unclassifiable musics are included under
the progressive umbrella, which leads to a lot of confusion. So,
regardless of how you feel about labelling and the boundaries of the
term, when you read r.m.p., keep in mind that many people reading the
group many be coming from a completely different musical background,
and may be listening for different reasons. The term is absolutely
not limited to early Yes and Genesis. People who think this tend to
be very surprised when they first hear Henry Cow, Magma or Univers
Zero. Popular media is generally guilty for this common attitude as
this is mostly what they talk about when they undertake one of those
pointless, inaccurate and laughably insulting "Progressive Rock
Retrospective" articles. Progressive music is that which is discussed
on r.m.p.

You need a CD player. Most re-issues of lost music and most new
releases are produced for CD only. Personally, I have spent a small
fortune since discovering r.m.p and the area in general and I
consider it some of the best investments I have ever made. Do not be
intimidated by people with huge collections, encyclopaedic knowledge
as r.m.p is a friendly place where the overriding concern is to
promote the enjoyment of some of the finest music ever made that you
would simply never otherwise hear about. I am continually amazed at
the degree of interconnection between the artists, bands and music in
what is an hugely eclectic field. I find this very satisfying as it
corroborates the intuition that there is something unifying about the
field as a whole. You will find shared members, houses, instruments
etc. amongst bands you came to from radically different directions
but which are all deemed progressive.

One thing that people find suprising when their musical horizons are
broadened is that there are different ways of listening to music
depending on its characteristics. The commonly accepted sub-genres
listed in FAQ 4 often concentrate on different aspects of music. For
example, much RIO has a penchant for rhythm and requires a different
attitude in the listener to textural ambient music which may be
focusing completely on sonority to the exclusion of rhythm. The mark
of an experienced listener is being able to switch between these
different focuses quickly and not to criticise music for paying no
attention to something it is not even attempting to address. No one
form of music can address all interesting aspects of music. This
leads me to suggest that the mature and reasoned listener who is
truly interested in music will have tastes more diverse than many
people would be able to imagine. Progressive music, I have found,
addresses a particularly wide spectrum of interesting attributes.

One more thing. There is a pernicious tendency for some people to
regard progressive music as the jewel in the crown of the music. This
is simply nonsense from people with narrow musical experience. Many
experienced progressive music enthusiasts have very wise tastes
indeed and you will catch a glimpse of these from time to time. I
have done so and they have lead to very fruitful and rewarding music
explorations in many different directions. Progressive music is a
small corner of music as a whole. I encourage everyone to explore as
widely as possible. Having said this, I and presumably you as you are
reading this, suspect progressive music is a particularly interesting
corner to explore.

                   ----------------------------------
                   What is rec.music.progressive For?
                   ----------------------------------

Discussion on r.m.p usually focuses on the lesser known progressive
bands.  While Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, and the like will
always have a home on r.m.p, they also have their own mailing lists
(see FAQ 5).  While almost everyone reading r.m.p is an enthusiast of
one or more of these groups, many are not terribly interested in what
kind of beer Mike Rutherford drinks, Steve Howe's favorite vegetable,
or the number of hairs on Robert Fripp's head. The purpose of this
newsgroup is to explore a wide variety of progressive music, rather
than trying to learn the most trivial facts about a few examples.
Also, the most knowledgeable people on each specific example will
almost certainly read the respective mailing lists, but may not read
r.m.p. So, while discussion of a new Yes release is a fair topic for
r.m.p (preferably, alt.music.yes), detailed analyses of Yes lyrics
might well be better off on the Yes mailing list.

As with most other newsgroups, r.m.p is better without flame wars. If
you have been on the net for more than a month, you have probably
seen several already. The best thing to do to people who flame is to
ignore them. You do not need to post a message telling everyone what
an idiot the flamer is, because that person has already let us know
that they are an idiot. The best way to avoid flames is to use tact
and be respectful. Probably nobody in the world is going to agree
with your musical opinions completely, so instead of being
inflammatory, you can carefully write a explanation of why you find
the new Genesis release substandard. The general rule of thumb is: if
you have to think twice about whether your post will upset anyone, it
is probably better not to post. Instead, find a more tactful and
respectful wording of what you want to say.


                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                 rec.music.progressive Congratulates Itself
                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It may be interesting to read what an unbiased and randomly selected
set of r.m.p readers have said about it:

"Not since the '70's when I was actually able to listen to a real
progressive radio station have I been able to pick up such excellent
music. I'm able to glean from opinions expressed here on r.m.p. as to
what artists/albums I would like (as opposed to the old days where
you could listen on the radio).  Let me tell you, we've got a pretty
good batting average going!  Last weekend I scored two Camel CDs,
Cairo, IQ, Nektar, Eloy and Soft Machine- all at local Best Buys or
Tower.  They were all hits and no misses- great music!  Can't wait to
find more.  Thanks to all on r.m.p!"
*Tony Anello* (anello@wwa.com)

"I, too, can credit r.m.p. with providing me with a long list of
bands that I'd never heard of before.  Of course, the things that
have attracted me are recent releases on independent labels, most of
which I haven't been able to find anywhere locally (though there have
been some enjoyable exceptions including Iluvatar's first release
used). Anyway, thanks for helping me find about 90% of the music I'm
currently listening to, and a long list of things that I'm going to
order one of these days.  Maybe one day my budget will allow me to
catch up! :)"
*Paul Konstant* (Paul_H_Konstant@sbphrd.com)

"I also would never have heard of or heard most of the stuff I listen
to nowadays if it wasn't for this group or the GEPR; I picked up on
Henry Cow, Magma, Only A Mother, Gorky's Zygotic Mynci, and the
entire Cuneiform catalog from this group.  A hearty thanks."
*David Lynch* (dflync01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu)

"I'm in the same boat. I'd have never heard about Progday '96. That
in itself has been worth all the online charges ten times over.  Also
found out about IQ, Jadis, Pallas, Arena, Enchant, MM Music,
Mastermind, Iluvatar, Discipline, on and on and on....  Even made the
trip up to Montreal (three times!!) to see The Musical Box. Thank you
all for letting me vent my musical opinions and learn about the best
music in all the world."
 *Dave Dery* (Skilbo@gnn.com)


                        =======================
                        About Progressive Music
                        =======================


Are there different categories of progressive music? (Answer
contributed in part from from Mike McLatchey)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Conventionally, yes. There are many sub-genres, and crossover genres.
Here is a brief and necessarily incomplete listing of the genres
frequently discussed on r.m.p.

Ambient
----------------------------------------------------------------------

As the name suggests, a form concentrating on ambience rather than
normal characteristics such as melody, harmony and rhythm.

*Examples:* Some Eno, Laraaji, much new age music.


Art Rock
----------------------------------------------------------------------

A name that is used to refer to early explorative work that had roots
in pop.  Quite often a display of attitude in addition to any musical
features. It is an abused term that seems to refer as much to
appearence as to music in its more common coinage.

*Examples:* Be Bop Deluxe, early Eno, Roxy Music


Canterbury
----------------------------------------------------------------------

A region in England where a unique style originated. The region's
name has now become the label for the style of music. One of the
earliest forms recognised as progressive, Canterbury music emphasises
laconic complexity and usually sounds identifiably English. The ideas
resulting from this form of music were very original. Often quite
jazzy in a light and airy sort of way, integrating jazz influences in
unique ways.

*Examples:* Caravan, Soft Machine, Hatfield  The North, National
Health


Classical Rock
----------------------------------------------------------------------

More accessibly related, bands starting with The Nice that attempted
to fuse classical music with rock structures.  Often felt to be quite
pompous yet were quite successful in their time.  Often a three man
format.

*Examples:* The Nice, ELP, Le Orme, Ekseption, Trace, The Trip


Electronic Progressive
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Often mis-categorized by being as "new age", much of this music was
around far before that abused term was coined.  Very explorative,
this is a wide open field and is typified by the use of almost all
electronic equipment, hence the name. There is often a concentration
on sonority and texture over and above other musical attributes.
Often very spacious and ethereal. Sometimes quite darkly powerful but
not in the way that ambient industrial material tends to be. The
sorts of sounds explored tend to be within the less extreme
synthesiser range.

*Examples:* 70's Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, Steve Roach, some
Popol Vuh, later Kit Watkins, Jean-Michel Jarre


Experimental/Industrial
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Often hard core experiemental material. The fringes of music where
almost anything can happen. Almost always difficult for the
newcomer.  Considerable use of noise, found objects, music concrete
and sometimes even power tools. Generally focusing on texture and
sonority to the expense of all else. A fascinating area for the
adventurous.

*Examples:* Einstrzende Neubauten, Nurse With Wound, Hafler Trio,
Main, Coil


Fusion
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Explorative jazz-rock: a fusion as the name suggests. Maybe a little
jazzier than most progressive music, but rockier than most jazz.
Quite a established and exciting genre with often virtuoso playing.

*Examples:* Mahavishnu Orchestra, Brand X, Iceberg, Arti+Mestieri


Krautrock
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Slighltly politically uncorrect term used harmlessly to refer to a
form of usually rather strange rock originating from Germany in the
70s. Typified by a loose, improvisational style with a large
proportion of experimentation and slightly whimsical flavour. Often
difficult to listen to, quite sinister and covertly intellectual.
Very influential in all sorts of areas even today. Some people regard
it as the precursor to industrial music proper which is fair: there
are similarities but probably as many differences. See Chris Moon's
informative Krautrock guide at:



*Examples:* Can, Amon Dl II, Faust, Xhol, Agitation Free, early
Tangerine Dream, Ash Ra Tempel


Neo-Classical Progressive
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Music that fused 20th century classical music with new rock
structures. Sometimes referred to as "chamber rock, this can be
difficult to appreciate at first as artists of this ilk were way out
on a limb and quite different. Also, it tends to be very complex,
requiring many listens to reach a fair appreciation. One of the least
understood genres about which most people are completely oblivious
yet one of the most rewarding.

*Examples:* Univers Zero, Art Zoyd, ZNR


Neo-Progressive
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Symphonic rock done in a typically simplified or more commercial
format. Often rich and melodious but without the complexity of
traditional progressive music. Mostly an 80's and 90's phenomenon.

*Examples:* Marillion, iQ, Pendragon, Twelfth Night, Aragon, Jadis,
Grey Lady Down


Progressive Folk
----------------------------------------------------------------------

A variety of music that took simple folk songs and did something
quite new with them. There were many forms of this.

*Examples:* Emtidi, Witthser  Westrupp, Malicorne, Mellow Candle


Progressive Metal
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Heavy metal that is influenced by symphonic rock or fusion. Usually
is much more complex than standard metal and emphasising virtuoso
instrumentalists.

*Examples:* Dream Theater, Fates Warning, Watchtower, Siege's Even,
Cynic, Atheist


Rock In Opposition (RIO)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

A name coined by ex-Henry Cow drummer Chris Cutler. This type of
music consistently defies categorization (except for "RIO") and is
extremely challenging and often hard to listen to. However, it is
very rewarding in the long run. The lyrical bent is often political,
especially for those bands Cutler has a hand in. Technically, bands
like Art Zoyd and Univers Zero are RIO as they subscribed to Cutlers
broad musical ethic in its original conception. However, the label
has outgrown its original political connotations and is now used to
refer to artists potraying a similar approach to the seminal Henry
Cow, the central RIO band. See Q's and A's below for a better
description of RIO. See Phil Zampino's (zampino@squidco.com) Web site
for much information on RIO labels and artists at:



*Examples:* Henry Cow, Art Bears, Samla Mammas Manna, News From
Babel, Thinking Plague, Etron Fou Leloublan etc.


Space Fusion
----------------------------------------------------------------------

A rough term given specifically to the superb band Gong for their
unique blend of jazz fusion and extended sweeping ambience. Often
very energetic and concentrating on long jams of psychadelic tinged
soloing. Generally a high level of musicianship in tight restraint to
give a clean, atmosphere of bright and effervescent fusion. "Swooshy"
is a perfect adjective.

*Examples:* Gong, Ozric Tentacles, Neo, Carpe Diem, some Djam Karet


Space Rock
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Like the above but without the jazz edge, more of a straight forward
type of space rock. Hawkwind were almost the be all and end all of
this genre and were the innovators.

*Examples:* Hawkwind, Amon Dl (the English line-up)


Symphonic Progressive
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Characterized by rich keys/synths and very melodic vocals and often
structured like a piece of classical music, arranged for an extended
rock instrumentation. Very much stretching the limits of the rock
format. If someone derides progressive music, this is almost always
the sort of thing they are talking about. You will often hear this
genre mistakenly used as a synonym for the entirety of progressive
music and called "pretentious" or "overblown". Criticisms that
completely miss the point and often belie some misguided idea that
all good music must either display a certain feature or must be
simple and "direct".

*Examples:* Yes (early), Genesis (early), Camel, Atoll, Mirthrandir,
nglagrd


Zeuhl
----------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the truly unique and little-known areas of music typified and
largely due to the incredible French band Magma. It is a term used to
refer to a particular brand of jazz fusion, sometimes with heavy
Coltrane influences but adopting a grandiosity and harmonic language
from certain classical works, particularly Stravinsky's "Les Noces".
Unlike anything else and a personal favourite of the present FAQ
maintainer. Often powerful beyond words.

*Examples:* Magma, Weidorje, Zao, Shub-Niggurath, Honeyelk, Musique
Noise


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


What countries does progressive music come from?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just about everywhere. Most people reading r.m.p are familiar with
the famous British progressive bands, and most have at least heard of
progressive acts from France, Italy, Germany and the USA. Progressive
music is truly international though. There are progressive artists
from just about every continent, as well as from many places you
would not think of. In Europe, there are artists from Poland, Sweden,
Finland, Spain, Switzerland, The Czech Republic, Austria, and Greece.
In South America, there are quite a few notable acts from Argentina,
Brasil, and Chile. Even the Middle East is represented with Zingale
from Israel. Japan has always been very strong and in Korea,
progressive music even gets radio airplay.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


 Is there a difference between "progressive" and "good"?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Obviously. Many progressive music fans (myself included) have been
 guilty at some time of either considering all the bands they like
 "progressive", or defining progressive to mean music that they
 consider "good". While this seems to be a human error that many of
 us make, please think twice before posting to r.m.p about a band
 just because you like them. For example, I would consider bands like
 Deicide "progressive" in important ways: they push the boundaries of
 rhythmic interplay, play very complex music with technical skill
 etc., but discussions about them do not really belong on r.m.p.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Just because an artist has released one or more progressive albums,
does that mean that everything they do is progressive?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. This is a common misconception. Though we call them "progressive
music artists", the artists themselves are not progressive - the
music is. Once progressive does not means always progressive. There
are many examples of bands that once made great progressive music,
but have turned to churning out worthless pop music. There seems to
be a trend from progressive music to a more accessible form of music
in many bands' histories, and unfortunately, they rarely return to
what many perceive to be their best work.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Does lyrical content count towards progressive-ness?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well written lyrics can never hurt any form of music, but there are
no rules that progressive music has to have good lyrics. Many bands
that display progressive music also display extremely poor lyrics. In
the same sense, many progressive bands are instrumental. Of course,
just because a band has good lyrics, it does not automatically make
them progressive. In other words, progressive music and intelligent
lyrics have little or no obvious correlation. Another issue to
consider is progressive music and progressive politics. While these
are two different things, there is some crossover. However, one does
not necessarily imply the other.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


But didn't this form of music die in the late seventies?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. FAQ 8 was specifically designed to give a quick overview of some
currently active artists. Please look at it. True, bands like Yes,
ELP, and Genesis have lost most of their "progressiveness", thus
making it seem like the fan base for progressive music disappeared
around 1979. However progressive music is still extremely strong. In
the eighties it was largely underground, though many artists put out
music equally as progressive as in the seventies. Now, in the
nineties, progressive music has had a revival of sorts, as dozens of
independent labels have been signing new and exciting artists. There
are hundreds of progressive, experimental and innovative bands
currently active, recording, and/or touring. In fact, today, we have
some of the finest music in the genre being made: it is just harder
to spot and find. To combat this, look at FAQ 2, FAQ 6 and FAQ 8.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


How did rec.music.progressive start?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Discussions of progressive music used to occasionally happen on
newsgroups like alt.rock-n-roll and rec.music.misc, and on mailing
lists like Gibraltar as well as others dedicated to specific artist.
In mid-1992, Scott McMahan started alt.music.progressiveand gradually
a number of people wandered in and started offering reviews of new
and old music in this genre and a helping hand to new and old fans of
progressive music interested in broadening their musical horizons.
With the general degeneration of the alt.* heirachy coupled with its
limited distribution, rec.music.progressive was proposed and passed
its CFV on May 2nd 1995.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Can I talk about Yes on rec.music.progressive?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

alt.music.yes exists and is the place to discuss Yes on the net.
However, since Yes was one of the more influential progressive bands,
it only makes sense that Yes should be talked about on r.m.p.
However, not everyone can agree about the "progressiveness" of newer
Yes, and many flamewars have erupted over this issue, and related
issues. So, alt.music.yes was created. While a.m.y is still a
relatively new newsgroup (created in June, 1994), it still is not
certain whether all discussion of Yes will go to a.m.y or not.
Probably not. If you are not certain which newsgroup to post Yes
material to, here is a handy guide.

Yes that has nothing to do with prog in general -- alt.music.yes
Yes in context with some other prog band(s) -- both (r.m.p and a.m.y)
A reference to Yes when discussing another prog band -- r.m.p
Pre-Rabin Yes -- a.m.y and maybe r.m.p (use your judgement)
Rabin-era Yes -- a.m.y
How much you hate Trevor Rabin or Yes in general -- neither

The point is that many people want to be able to discuss Yes in
detail without being flamed for liking the 80's and 90's version of
the band. Others would like to be able to state their (negative)
opinions about Yes without being flamed. Other prog fans do not
listen to Yes, and are tired of 90% of the discussion on r.m.p being
about Yes. The advantages of a.m.y include (hopefully) taking care of
these three issues. One possible disadvantage is that people who
might have developed an interest in other progressive rock bands via
Yes discussion on r.m.p may not get that chance any more. In any
case, these are tenative guidelines to follow. What you post and
where you post it is up to you. If you would like to avoid starting
flamewars and useless discussions, following these guidelines may
help.


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I read a review on rec.music.progressive and it made the band sound
good.  But when I got the album, it was awful!!  What should I do?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing. People who write reviews should not be held responsible for
whether everyone reading the review agrees with them or not. Since
everyone has a different idea of what is good and what is not, take
that into consideration before buying. When reading reviews, you may
want to read as much as you can by a particular author to see if that
person's tastes seem to be close to yours. If you disagree with the
author's opinion 50% or less of the time, then you should think twice
about buying something on that person's recommendation. In general,
it is better to get a consensus of more than three opinions before
you make a purchasing decision, or even better, try to listen to the
music before buying it. While it can be very hard to find obscure
progressive music to buy, much less to listen to, you can listen to a
friend's copy first, or ask someone to tape a copy for you. I have
bought things based on minimal information (usually in the grip of a
CD frenzy at a fair with cash in my hand) and it has been truly aw

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


There is a progressive band I really do not like, but I do not want
to post a negative review of them because some people reading the
newsgroup might like them, or the band themselves may eventually read
the review and get mad at me. What should I do?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post it. Negative reviews are a positive thing. Not all progressive
music is as good as the rest or even good at all. It is important to
differentiate between the excellent, good, mediocre, and poor,
especially since the average cost of a CD is $15-$20 (US) or 12-20
(UK). While not everyone will agree with your point of view, if you
present your arguments in a non-inflammatory manner, most people will
respect you for it.  The deification of some progressive artists
brings a lack of perspective that in turn hurts the fans more than
helps them. By writing a negative review, even on a progressive
"sacred cow", you may make both new and experienced listeners alike
re-assess their viewpoints, which is always good. But, of course,
this does not mean you should always write negative reviews. Be fair,
but firm.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Somebody said that people without formal musical training cannot
appreciate progressive music. I am a non-musician who really enjoys
progressive music, and I am insulted by this person's "elitist"
attitude. Why do people say these things?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes because of silly ideas about classical training and
sometimes because of valid insights. Training is neither necessary
nor sufficient for "real" appreciation, mainly because there is no
such thing as "real" appreciation. There are many aspects to
appreciate and everyone has their nuances. However, I will say that
an understanding of music can greatly aid your understanding of a
piece and I have found that, for example, an understanding of rhythm
greatly enhances my appreciation of much music. However, I know
classically trained musicians who adore Status Quo exactly because
analysis is so pointless there. Musical training cannot hurt. There
are no guideliens for this. Some people find that an appriciation of
the exact music score of a piece ruins their nave appreciation. I
have found this on occasion: learning to play a line you admire can
spoil its mystique. This question has no answer. Experiment for
yourself.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Are there any proggresive musicians on the net?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Many, including Kit Watkins, Allan Holdsworth, Episode, Now,
Anekdoten, Yezda Urfa, Echolyn, Kurt Rongey, Marco Olivetti (TNR),
Mind Gallery, Kalaban, Tony Levin, Mastermind and many others.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


So what are their addresses?  I want to write to them!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If they want people to write, they will advertise the fact. However
if they post to r.m.p, you can always reply.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Are there any mail order sources or record label representatives on
the net?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Many and the number is growing. See FAQ 2. For example, one of the
first net mail order outlets was started by Ranjit Padmanabhan and
Ken Golden of Laser's Edge can take credit card email orders. Expect
this to become more and more common with mail order outlets putting
their catalogues on-line. There are a few reputable outlets currently
interested in this. Keep your eyes open for anouncements.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Is it true that Phil Collins has not always been the vocalist in
Genesis?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. There were 6 Genesis albums before Phil Collins took over on
lead vocals, although he did the occasional song and backing vocals
before this. Peter Gabriel was the lead vocalist from 1969 until his
departure in 1974.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


What is the relation between Renaissance and Illusion?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The definitive place to find out about Rennaissance is Northern
Lights - The Renaissance Web Page


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I have heard that Magma created their own language. Is this true?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes. Magma's drummer (and leader) Christian Vander created the
language "Kobaan", which is what you are hearing sung on most Magma
albums. Recently, work has gone into compiling a phrasebook of Kobaan
worlds and their Engligh translations. You can find this on the Magma
home page at



From Marcelo Spindola Bacha (dronsz@if.ufrj.br): Kobaan is not
exactly a Vander idea, it was based in an original project from Klaus
Blasquiz, as results of some of their studies about representing
graphically other kind of phonemas ... Kobaan is not really a
language, it is quite incomplete, and it is always changing, as
Vander says. It sounds rather Germanic and slightly Russian.


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


What is "The Progressive Music Survey" that people talk about? What
is its relation to the Gibraltar Encyclopedia of Progressive Rock?
How do I get a copy?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

They are the same thing. It is a huge listing of progressive bands,
with their discographies and reviews and overviews of their
releases.  It was originally compiled by Dave Markfield in late 1991,
but a more recent version was put together by Mike Taylor in early
1993.  It is an A to Z dictionary of progressive music, and though it
is still incomplete, it contains info on over 1100 artists. To get an
ascii copy, ftp to



Please not that the HTML versions are always the latest; the ascii
copies are usually not quite up to date. Mike Taylor made a printed,
bound version available but it is currently sold out. Mail him for
more information at gepr@plato.museum.tulane.edu

The *GEPR* (see FAQ 4and FAQ 7) is now properly on-line at its new
home in the US. There are currently two mirrors, one in Europe and
another in the US. Choose the site nearest to you for the fastes
access.

                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                 Home site (maintained by Mike Taylor)
                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  UK mirror (maintained by Phil Kime)
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                 US mirror (maintained by Adam Levin)
                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



NOTE: If you are looking for an idea of what particular bands sound
like, or are new to prog and want to get an idea of what is out
there, I strongly suggest perusing the survey.


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Are bands like Pink Floyd, Supertramp, Styx, Kansas and Rush
progressive?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That depends on who you ask. There are many people who do consider
them progressive, and many who do not. There are albums by each of
these bands that may generally be considered progressive, but even
some die-hard fans of the aformentioned groups will admit that each
has put out non-progressive material as well.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I saw an album by a band called Area, but it did not seem like it was
from the Italian fusion band ... ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are two Areas, the one you saw is probably the US band.  The
Italian band is the progressive one. Keep in mind that there are a
handful of bands that have "namesakes". Here is a list:

Abraxas
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) '76 Belgian offshoot from Cos
(2) Polish '90s neo-prog

Ain Soph
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Canterbury style band from Japan
(2) Gothic band from Italy

Albatross
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) From Italy. One "s"
(2) '76 USA prog
(3) Guitar psych band

Aragon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Australian neo-progressive band
(2) US metal band

Area
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Italian progressive fusion band
(2) US trio

Asia
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) UK group with Steve Howe and John Wetton
(2) Late 70s Midwest USA progressive band

Cathedral
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) The Current neo-progressive band from the US
(2) The Defunct progressive band on Syn-Phonic
(3) A doom metal band from the UK

Dark
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) early UK 70s psych band
(2) USA/Switzerland? mid-80s fusion/space/prog

Delirium
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Italian progressive band
(2) Mexican progressive band
(3) Ambient/Trance duo based in Canada

Deus ex Machina
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Recent Italian progressive band
(2) Mexican "cyberpunk" band.

Dragon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) '70s Belgian band
(2) '70s New Zealand Band

Dragonfly
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Hard-rock psychedelic band from LA circa 1971
(2) Swiss progressive band circa 1978
(3) UK band that put out *Almost Abandoned*

Eden
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Large Austrian band with folk and classical influences
(2) French duo comparable to Spring, Gracious and Bo Hansson

Fantasia
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) From Finland
(2) Post-Kaipa Rione Stolt Swedish band

Finch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Netherlands prog
(2) Australian hard rock

 I Flashman
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) USA Art-rock (without the "I")
(2) Italian pop/rock band with one prog album

Full Moon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Belgian mid 70s fusion
(2) Norwegian mid 80s prog/metal

Galaxy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Prog from Switzerland
(2) USA heavy psych

Gandalf
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Austrian synthesist/guitarist
(2) Psychedelic band from early 70's

Genesis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) The one everyone knows
(2) Some satanic band??
(3) Argentian prog band??

Haze
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Early 70s from Germany
(2) 80s UK band

Horizant(e)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Swedish late '70s (without the "e")
(2) Argentinian band

Iconoclast(a)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Mexican prog
(2) Avant-garde /industrial band (no 'a' in the name)

iQ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) British neo-progressive band
(2) German hip-hop

Arthur Brown's Kingdom Come
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Avant-weird-psych-prog band from early seventies.

Victor Periano's Kingdom Come
----------------------------------------------------------------------
US spinoff of the above, more like keyboard-oriented stadium rock.

Kingdom Come
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Late eighties Zeppelin influenced metal band.

Lethe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Italian '90s band
(2) early '80s Netherlands prog

Magdelena
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) mid to late '80s Japanese band
(2) early '80s Spanish band

Magma
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) French Zeuhl band
(2) Argentian prog band
(3) Korean band

Masque
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) From Japan
(2) From Sweden

Nirvana
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Old British band with progressive tendencies
(2) The popular US band

Now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) From Belgium
(2) From US
(3) From Japan

Octopus
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) German mid-'70s prog
(2) British psych/prog band from 1969.
(3) US psych/blues band, one album from 1969
(4) Norwegian symphonic band, one album in 1981

Phoenix
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Romanian from '73-'75
(2) UK '76-'80 commerical prog

Providence
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) '90s neo-prog from Japan
(2) UK from '71 folky prog

Sand
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) '70s German band
(2) '70s US band

Sirius
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) German euro symphonic style band
(2) Japanese precursor to Mr. Sirius

Shadowland
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) British neo-progressive
(2) something else, put out an album named *The Beauty of Escaping*
on Geffen in 1990

Solstice
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Canadian band, style unknown
(2) UK band, cross between Renaissance and Marillion

Victor
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) '90s Canadian Rush guitarist solo project
(2) mid-'70s symphonic prog

Wild(e) Flowers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) Early Canterbury progressive band
(2) Mainstream US band??

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Are there any progressive rock radio shows?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A few. Descriptions are not by the FAQ maintainer.
::Show::
  Alternative Oldies
::Location::
  New Orleans Metro Area
::Station::
  WTUL 91.5 FM
::Time::
  Saturday, 6-8pm
::DJ::
  Mike Taylor
::Comments::
  Music Played: Any rock recorded 1985 or prior.  Most shows feature
  at least some progressive rock and often are entirely prog and
  fusion. Occasionally, the show focuses on psychedelia and
  blues-rock.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Show::
  iRock
::WWW::
  
::Comments::
  A Web radio station ... you can download the shows and listen to
  them using RealAudio Player. See bottom of FAQ 5.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Show::
  Exposure
::Location::
  Key West, Florida
::Station::
  See below
::Address::
  43553 Ellsworth St. Suite B, Fremont, CA 94539
::WWW::
  
::Time::
  Every Monday evening 9PM - Midnight
::DJ::
  John Szpara
::Music Played::
  General progressive rock, from the early seventies on up.
::Comments::

*Station information*
WOZN  98.7 FM     Key West, Florida       Sunday Evening
10PM-Midnight WPLT  93.9 FM     Plattsburgh, New York   Sunday
Evening around 8PM-10 WOUI  88.9 FM     Chicago, Illinois
Wednesday Evening 6PM-8PM

Playlists for the previous week are posted each week on r.m.p.


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Show::
  Forward Progress
::Location::
  Bryan/College Station, Texas  (A and M University)
::Range::
  Limited. It's a cable station, which means that if you get cable in
  the area, you can hook up the cable (through a transformer) to a
  stereo system, like an antenna. Odds are, only people who live in
  B/CS, or use our cable system, will be able to get it.  :(
::Station::
  KANM, Cable Radio 99.9 FM.
::Time::
  10am-Noon, Mondays.
::DJ::
  Mike Bourgon
::Music Played::
  Pretty much anything Progressive.  I'm playing quite a bit of stuff
  from the "new prog" bands, like Magellan, Shadow Gallery, Echolyn,
  etc.  However, I also play Genesis, Marillion, IQ, Animator, Big
  Picture, Mind Gallery, Magma, Steve Hackett, ELP, Camel, Soft
  Machine, etc.  I'm planning on getting Deus Ex Machina soon, along
  with nglagrd.  Anything that's really good, and gets plugged on
  r.m.p, I'll probably wind up getting (eventually).

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Show::
  The Sheltering Sky
::Station::
  WBGU, 88.1 FM
::Location::
  Bowling Green, OH
::Time::
  Wednesdays from 7pm to 9pm
::DJ::
  Doug Maynard
::Music Played::
  Broad. Anything I can get my hands on. Classic groups (Yes, ELP,
  Marillion, Kansas, Crimson, Rush, Tull, Gentle Giant, etc...) as
  well as newer or lesser known groups (Ozric Tentacles, Iluvatar,
  Witsend). My collection is modest, but growing.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Show::
  Sleepless
::Station::
  WCWM Williamsburg, VA 90.7 FM
::Time::
  Sunday 10am-noon
::DJ::
  Bill Maciejewski
::WWW::
  
::Music Played::
  I often play King Crimson, Brian Eno, Frank Zappa, Wire, Pink
  Floyd, Genesis, Discipline, David Sylvian, etc. and a lot more
  obscure stuff. I tend to like wierd instrumentals a lot and
  probably play a lot of things people might not consider progressive
  (but I do, so I play it.  Ha!). See Web page for setlists etc.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Show::
  Watcher of the Skies
::Location::
  Central Arkansas, USA
::WWW::
   or 
::Station::
  KMJX Magic 105, 105.1FM
::Time::
  Every Sunday night at 9PM for approximately 30 minutes
::DJ::
  "Wil Warren" (real name: James J. Warren or JJW)
::Email::
  wwarren@beakerstreet.com
::Music Played::
  This prerecorded program is available (live over the radio and the
  internet) every Sunday evening at 9PM Central Time (USA) in the
  middle of the famous Beaker Street radio show with "Clyde
  Clifford."  Each Watcher of the Skies segment is devoted to an
  artist or subject concerning any category of progressive rock.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Were there not US releases of some Italian progressive albums with
the same music  but lyrics in English?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, there were several. Most notably, PFM released *Storia d'un
Minuto*, *Per Un Amico*, and *L'Isola di Niente* in Italian.
Manticore (I think this was Peter Sinfield's label...he did write the
lyrics for the English verison but I have also heard ELP started it)
released *Photos of Ghosts* and *The World Became the World* with
remixed instrumentation and English vocals and titles. These
partially cover the three Italian albums. *Photos of Ghosts* is
basically all of *Per Un Amico*, plus `Generale!' which is from
*Storia d'un Minuto*. *The World Became the World* is *L'Isola di
Niente* plus the title track, from *Storia d'un Minuto*. Both of the
English versions are poor pressings, and in general, people agree
that the original Italian versions are far superior, both technically
and performance-wise.

Other bands to do the same are RDM (*Contamination* is the English
version of *Contaminazione*) and Maxophone (English version has the
same title).


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Which Focus album(s) contain "Sugar Island" and "House of the King"?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Although "House of the King" was originally released on *Focus III*,
it's now available on the CD release of , *In and Out of Focus*.
"Sugar Island" is also available on *IaOoF*.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


What is the Mellotron and how does it work? What are related
instruments?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From afcpeters@aol.com (Peter Stoller): The Mellotron is a keyboard
instrument in which the sounds are produced by strips of prerecorded
analog tape dragged slowly over playback heads. Think of it as a
mechanical, analog sample-playback device. Tape `patches' were
usually of strings, choirs, flutes and such. The Beatles were
probably the first to use them, but the Mellotron was popularized by
King Crimson, the Moody Blues and Genesis. (Wakeman used them with
Yes, but they were rarely dominant. Emerson never used one.) Songs
such as Crimson's "In the Court of the Crimson King" and Genesis'
"Watcher of the Skies" are good examples of the Mellotron sound.

The Chamberlin was a similar instrument from a different
manufacturer, and Wakeman had someone build him an improved version
of the Mellotron called the Birotron. Patrick Moraz played a Vako
Orchestron, which was the same principal, but using the playback
technology employed in film projectors, rather than tape.

From rogoff@std.teradyne.com (David Rogoff): For each key there is a
5' length of tape (= 8sec @ 7.5''/sec). One end rests on a capstan
(rotating metal cylinder that runs the width of the whole keyboard.
On each key is a pinch roller. When you press the key down, the tape
is pressed against the capstan and starts moving. This is exactly the
same as in a cassette deck.  Also under the tape (again one for each
key) is a tape playback head. So, the tape is pulled across the head,
generating the sound. If you hold the key for more than 8 seconds the
sound (and the tape) just stops. When you let go of the key, a spring
pulls the tape back. This takes about a 1/8 second, so you can't play
64th note trills on the thing. In fact, you never want to hit the
keys: you sort of push them down. The action takes some getting used
to.

Also, Each tape is 3/8" wide made up of 3 1/8" tracks for 3 different
sounds. A big lever moved the whole tape head assembly from side to
side to chose the different sounds. If you have access to a 1/2" four
track reel-to-reel you can make your own tapes pretty easily. It just
takes a long time! I've been describing the Mellotron-400, the most
common and most "portable" model.


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Eddie Jobson is credited on the King Crimson album USA. Was he ever
in the band?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, Jobson was not a member of Crimson, but he did get called in to
do overdubs on *USA*. Apparently Fripp had fired Cross by that point
and needed someone to do the overdubs. The majority of what you hear
on the album is Cross. Jobson did not perform the material live.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I do a lot of tape trading in order to find out about more obscure
(non-bootleg) progressive music. Is this legal?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Note that this response only applies to US copyright law. As of this
writing there has not been a specific legal precedent set. In other
words, a case has not been brought before a court involving taping of
non-bootleg material. The current status of the law regarding home
taping is best summed up by Terry Carroll's Copyright FAQ at:




               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Suppose I tape an album or a CD for a friend anyway. Is this helping
or hurting the artist of the work?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It depends who you tape it for. If you are taping it for somone who
will buy the original if they like it, then it is basically free
advertising and can only help the artist. The other person would not
have bought it anyway if they had not heard it. However, if you are
taping it for people who will just keep the copy even if they love
it, you are hurting them. It is not a clear cut help/hurt ... it
depends on the idiosyncracies of the people involved. Seeing as prog
is a minority area where artists need support (and generally deserve
it), I personally make it a policy to buy every album I hear and like
on an original format. Consider it an act of tribute. I have even
baought back catalogue material when I have tape copies that I rarely
listen to. I consider it an honour to own good music on an original
format, you may be different. Use your own discretion but be aware
that what you choose to do may well be illegal and this FAQ is
certainly not suggesting any such behaviour. Tape trading in minority
music sim

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


What does RIO stand for?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

 From afcpeters@aol.com (Peter Stoller): Rock In Opposition. It was
 an assemblage of European progressive bands who were defining a
 style "in opposition" to the English language domination of the pop
 music industry. Key elements were that groups sang in their native
 languages (or, in Magma's case, created their own), and they drew
 much of their source material from their own national folk, popular
 and classical musics, instead of using the American blues-based
 model.

RIO started as the name of a festival in London organised by Henry
Cow in 1978 and featuring groups from Italy, Sweden, France and
Belgium. After the concert, they decided to formalize the coalition.
They organized tours and festivals in each others countries.
According to Henry Cow drummer/lyricist Chris Cutler, RIO as an
organization failed due to political and philosophical differences:
there is no longer an official RIO, and has not been for some time
but it succeeded and has continued to grow as a cultural phenomenon.

The original RIO artists were Henry Cow, Samla Mammas Manna, Univers
Zero, Art Zoyd, Stormy Six, Art Bears, Aqsak Maboul, and Etron Fou
Leloublan.  Associated artists include Magma, Albert Marcoeur, ZNR,
Feliu y Joan Albert, Musica Urbana, Goebbels  Harth,
Kraldjursanstalten, Unrest, Work  Play, The Residents, Faust, L.
Voag, Mnemonists, This Heat, Cassiber, Thinking Plague, Haniwa Chan,
and John Oswald. (There are, of course, many others.)  This
information was derived from Cutler's book, "File Under Popular" (see
FAQ 3).

From Mike Borella (cathmike@xnet.com): The term RIO is now used as a
way of describing some of the more indescribable musics created today
by artists that are influenced to some degree by the original RIO
artists. The "new" RIO influenced bands would include U Totem,
Thinking Plaugue, 5UU's, Lacrymosa, and maybe Banda Elastika. So when
someone says that a new band sound like RIO, you know that maybe be
influenced by RIO or are just weird/elcectic or just strange.

See Phil Zampino's (zampino@squidco.com) Web site dedicated to RIO
artists and labels at:




               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


How many versions of Gentle Giant's
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Free Hand*

 have been on CD, and what are the differences?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

From barrett@cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett): There have been 4
versions on CD: two from One Way Records in the USA, and two from
Terrapin Trucking, a.k.a. Road Goes On Forever (RGOF), in Great
Britain.  Summary: there are large differences between the first
three versions, and the Terrapin/RGOF versions are acknowledged by
fans to be the best.

Now for the longer answer. The first CD came from One Way Records,
number CDL 57338.  This disc was mastered from inferior American
master tapes and sounds very muffled.  If you turn up your treble
control, the disc sounds almost normal, but overall the sound is
mediocre.

In response to complaints from fans, One Way recalled all the old
CD's from stores, sought out better master tapes, and rereleased
*Free Hand* with the SAME identification number, CDL 57338.  It is
not possible to distinguish between the first and second *Free Hand*
CD's from the packaging.  The only way to tell by eye is to open the
package and examine the code number stamped on the disc rim.  The old
disc says "AM6/CDL 57338", and the new disc says "ESK 1 <010> CDL
57338".

The second One Way disc has much better sound. The master tape that
One Way used, however, is a very strange one.  It is not the same
tape that was used for any previous release of the album, and the
music is actually different from the original! In "Time To Kill",
Derek Schulman sings some of the lines instead of Ray Schulman; for
example, `And with no questions then, he finds his way'. In "On
Reflection", the drums come in half a verse earlier than in the
original. And worst of all, at the climax of "On Reflection", when
the full band comes crashing in, the drums are barely audible! This
CD is worth owning because it is different from any previous release,
but it is notrepresentative version of the album.

Next, Terrapin/RGOF released their first *Free Hand* disc,
identification number RGF CD 1004. It uses the correct master tapes
and has very good sound quality. I find it a little bit bass-heavy,
but it is much better than the other versions. Some fans complained
that the disc had too much hiss, and Terrapin/RGOF remastered it to
remove hiss, giving the disc a new identification number, TRUCKCD
004. Reportedly, the differences between the two Terrapin/RGOF discs
are minor. If you own only 1 *Free Hand* CD, get this one.


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                 ------------------------------------
                 Mailing Lists Through Email/Internet
                 ------------------------------------

A mailing list is a group of users with a special interest topic that
unites them via email. Any mail sent to the list address is
"exploded" by being sent to everyone on the subscription list. The
lists can reach up to hundreds or thousands of people with mutual
interests. Lists are generally available as normal (separate mail for
each post) or digest format.

Some lists are moderated: the moderator may request that a post be
edited or may refuse to post it if the content considered off the
topic of the list or possibly even offensive. This may sound
restrictive, but in reality there are few situations where post
content is censored or edited. One example is a list where discussion
of trading bootlegs is forbidden by the management of the site that
"owns" the mailing list.  There is no guarantee of "free speech" on
computer networks as there also is the implicit assumption that
anything you email or post may be read by many people. Most people
are not very concerned about this, but public discussions of
potentially illegal actions such as trading tapes, bootlegs or
otherwise is at your own risk and should probably be undertaken with
some discretion. In theory, mailing lists can reach a lot of people
who have email but cannot get Internet news. Mailing lists tend to
have less usless posts and flames because of a smaller, more focused
audience.

For solo and related acts, discussions might take place on related
lists (for example, Fish might be discussed on the Marillion list,
and Brand X on the Genesis list, Bruford, Levin and Belew on the King
Crimson list, Bruford on the Yes list, in fact Bruford on just about
any list: there is a theory, "The Bruford Connectivity Hypothesis",
that Bill Bruford can be connected to anybody in the music business
by no more than two steps, where a step is defined as "having worked
with". There is a stronger hypothesis "The Special Bruford
Connectivity Hypothesis" that extends this by saying that the
connection can be made to anyone on the planet in no more than three
steps. Ergo, Bill Bruford is the social epicentre of the human race.
Quite frightening really.

Most mailing lists have a "-request" or administrative address for
subscriptions and unsubscriptions. Save the introduction to any list
to which you subscribe or keep track of the administration address
when you want to unsubscribe. Many people post subscribe and
unsubscribe messages to the list mailer addresses, unwittingly
sending them to up to hundreds of other subscribers. Some list
administrators do not regularly read the mailing list posts or have
automated the subscription process, so use the administration address
for the appropriate requests. Listserv or Bitnet mailing lists
typically have a listserv@ address you should use instead of a
"-request" format address. Some of the smaller, digested lists use no
administrative address and all mail is sent to one address.

                              ~~~~~~~~~~~
                              Please Note
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~

There is no guarantee that these addresses are correct.  What you see
below is, to the best of my knowledge, the most recent address of the
mailing list. If the address is incorrect, please let me know.  If
you are a moderator of a prog mailing list, please contact me with
updates if and when your address changes.

::Artist::
  Progmaestros mailing list
::Admin Address::
  progmaestros-request@arastar.com
::Moderator Address::
  progmaestros-request@arastar.com
::Comments::

This daily digest was developed as a result of the interest in Dream
Theater by musicians subscribed to the Ytsejam digest. Our goal is to
network the musicians across the world who are interested in
Progressive rock and metal music.  We believe by doing this we can
share ideas, experiences and plans for our individual efforts and
thereby make it more accessible to a mainstream audience.  This music
deserves to be heard by more people AND better promoted by the
industry.  We hope that through our collective efforts this will
eventually happen. THE WHOLE IS GREATER THAN THE SUM OF ITS PARTS!

The progmaestros mailing list can be joined by doing the following:

Send the following e-mail to progmaestros-request@arastar.com

Subject should be "asdf".  Text should read exactly:

subscribe progmaestros firstname lastname

(replace the names with your own.) You will be added automatically!


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Colorado Art Rock Society (CARS)
::WWW::
  http://denver.sidewalk.com/detail/2518
::Comments::

The Colorado Art Rock Society (C.A.R.S.) holds monthly meetings of
Progressive Rock fans.  We meet fellow fans, listen to GREAT music,
swap CD's, eat, mingle and just relax. We meet the last Saturday
evening of each month.  CD player is provided. We meet the last
Saturday of each month at 6:00pm

Meetings take place upstairs at:
Margarita Bay Club
1301 South Pearl Street
(at Louisiana)
Denver, Colorado 80210
(303) 871-0603

Take I-25 to Washington/Emerson Exit (exit 205B) Coming from the
North - Right on Washington, Right on Louisiana (Club is on the left)
Coming from the South - Left on Louisiana (Club os on the left) We
meet in the UPSTAIRS meeting room. For more detailed directions check
out the web site.

The Colorado Art Rock Society (C.A.R.S.) also has a mailing list set
up.  This list will be used to send out reminders for our monthly
meetings at the Margarita Bay Club (last Saturday of each month at
6:00 pm) in Denver. It will also be used for announcements of
Progressive music, gigs and events in the Colorado area.  We also
have an archive section which includes files and web page bookmarks.
To subscribe:




               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Pendentif  Aglagla general Prog mailing list
::Admin Address::
  pengla-owner@sorengo.com
::Moderator Address::
  JeanMarc.Roussel@advalvas.be
::WWW::
  
::Comments::

Frenchspeaking mailing list about progressive rock! Visit our web
site to subscribe, then post your messages on pengla@sorengo.com


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Dream Theater
::Admin Address::
  ytsejam-request@arastar.com
::Moderator Address::
  ytsejam-owner@arastar.com
::Comments::

Ytsejam, the Dream Theater mailing list concerns itself with Dream
Theater past, present, and future.  To subscribe make this the body
of your mail:

subscribe ytsejam "Your Name"


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Peter Gabriel
::Admin Address::
  gabriel@alpha.ufsia.ac.be
::Moderator Address::
  CCS.PEERAER.G@alpha.ufsia.ac.be (Geert Peeraer)
::Comments::
  FTP archives available. Digest form available also.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Genesis
::Admin Address::
  paperlate-request@ansto.gov.au
::Moderator Address::
  mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan)
::WWW::
  
::Comments::
  Send a message with `HELP' in the body for details on how to use
  the server to subscribe. (This is *totally* automated!)

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Gentle Giant
::Admin Address::
  listserv@netcom.com
::Comments::

G. J. Goldwyn runs the Gentle Giant mailing (on-reflection) list on
the Internet. Current membership >150 and growing. A digest form is
under consideration.

To subscribe, send e-mail to

listserv@netcom.com

containing the single line

SUBSCRIBE on-reflection


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Name::
  Gibraltar (Progressive Rock)
::Admin Address::
  listman@plato.museum.tulane.edu
::Moderator Address::
  gib@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Mike Taylor)
::WWW::
  
::Comments::
  The list covers general and obscure Progressive Rock topics like
  rec.music.progressive and has a very useful archive server.
  Backissues and related files are available via anonymous ftp in the
  music directories at 
  There's a very outdated topical index of the issues of the digest
  which is useful for finding references to specific bands in back
  issues. Backissues are also available via the Gibraltar web site
  and are 100% indexed and searchable. To subscribe, send mail body
  of:

subscribe gibraltar "Your Name"

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Peter Hammill/Van Der Graaf Generator
::Admin Address::
  ph7-request@arastar.com
::Moderator Address::
  ph7-owner@arastar.com
::Comments::

The ph7 mailing list concerns itself with the music and writings of
Peter Hammill and related bands such as Van Der Graaf Generator.
Recent discussions have included comments on Random Hold, Fripp, The
Long Goodbye and Peter Hammill's two books of lyrics, poems, and
short stories. To subscribe, send a mail body of:

subscribe ph7 "Your Name"


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Hawkwind
::Admin Address::
  boc-l@spcvxa.spc.edu
::Comments::
  Talk focuses around the two primary bands, but discussions have
  included the Ozric Tentacles and Eloy, plus Hawkwind offshoot bands
  and other `space-rock' bands.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Allan Holdsworth
::Admin Address::
  atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
::Moderator Address::
  preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
::Comments::
  A digested list that discusses Allan's music and session work.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  IQ
::Admin Address::
  nmd@newton.npl.co.uk
::Moderator Address::
  nmd@newton.npl.co.u
::Comments::
  Also included is discussion of related bands such as Jadis,
  Niadem's Ghost and the Lens, as well as to a smaller degree, lesser
  known bands on the English club/prog scene.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Jethro Tull
::Admin Address::
  jtull-request@remus.rutgers.edu
::Moderator Address::
  steiner@bakerst.rutgers.edu (Dave Steiner)

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Kansas
::Admin Address::
  kansas-request@traveller.com
::Moderator Address::
  rew@crystaldata.com (Ryan Waldron)

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  King Crimson, Robert Fripp and related artists
::Admin Address::
  admin@elephant-talk.com
::Moderator Address::
  moderator@elephant-talk.com (Toby Howard)
::WWW::
  
::Comments::
  This is the "Elephant Talk" digest (previously called
  "Discipline"). Archives at  with
  discography(ies?) also.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Marillion/Fish
::Admin Address::
  freaks-request@arastar.com
::Moderator Address::
  freaks-owner@arastar.com
::Comments::

The freaks mailing list is the oldest of the arastar.com: progressive
rock mailing lists. It deals with Marillion, Fish, and other related
bands. To subscribe, send mail body of:

subscribe freaks "Your Name"


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Steve Morse and the Dixie Dregs
::Admin Address::
  blickstein@dregs.enet.dec.COM
::Moderator Address::
  blickstein@dregs.enet.dec.COM

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Mike Oldfield
::Admin Address::
  amarok-request@ommadawn.cegep-heritage.qc.ca
::List Address::
  amarok@ommadawn.cegep-heritage.qc.ca
::Comments::

To subscribe send

subscribe amarok-daily

in the body of a message to the admin address

Web site at



ftp archive at




               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Pink Floyd
::Admin Address::
  echoserv@fawnya.tcs.com (automated server),
  echoes-request@fawnya.tcs.com (manual un/subscribe)
::Moderator Address::
  bear@tcs.co
::Comments::

To subscribe send mail to the server (echoserv@fawnya.tcs.com) with

Subscription: add echoes or Subscription: add-digest echoes

You can mail to echoes-request@fawnya.tcs.com to susbcribe manually.

Archive server has lists of rare releases, huge FAQ, interviews etc.
You can get info on how to use the server to retrieve files, reviews
of rarities discs and interviews and other info by sending mail to
the echoserv address with the text body:

help
quit


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Post-classical discussion
::Admin Address::
  majordomo@cs.uwp.edu
::Comments::

Send "subscribe post-classical" in the *body* of the mail or
"subscribe post-classical-digest" for the digest format. From the
admin information regarding which bands might typicallybe discussed
on the list:

Shinjuku Thief, In The Nursery, Art Zoyd, Univers Zero, Daniel Denis,
Pete Namlook, Peter Frohmader, Graeme Revell, Laibach, Autopsia,
Mynox Layh, Frame/Cut/Frame, Edgar Varese, John Cage, Karlheinz
Stockhousen, Michael Nyman, Steve Reich, Harry Partch, Morton
Feldman, Mossolov and Iannis Xenakis.


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Queensryche
::WWW::
  
::WWW (Subscriptions)::
  
::Moderator Address::
  queensryche-owner@onelist.com (Jai Piper)
::Comments::
  Now Web-based.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Rush
::Admin Address::
  rush-request@syrinx.umd.edu
::Moderator Address::
  rush-mgr@syrinx.umd.edu

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Tangerine Dream
::Admin Address::
  tadream-request@cs.uwp.edu
::Moderator Address::
  datta@cs.uwp.edu (Dave Datta)

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  David Torn
::Admin Address::
  pcole@sseyod.demon.co.uk
::Moderator Address::
  pcole@sseyod.demon.co.uk (Pete Cole)
::Comments::
  Door X - the David Torn mailing list. Current membership 100, and
  growing ... including DT himself!  To join, e-mail
  pcole@sseyod.demon.co.uk with a subject of SUBSCRIBE DOORX

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Triumvirat
::Admin Address::
  russ@triumvirat.net
::WWW::
  
::Comments::
  Related to Triumvirat, Juergen Fritz and Helmut Koellen.

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Pere Ubu
::Moderator Address::
  pereubu@projex.demon.co.uk
::WWW::
  

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Vangelis
::Admin Address::
  direct-request@ctsx.celtech.com
::Moderator Address::
  N/A

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Name::
  What's Rattlin'? (Canterbury)
::Moderator Address::
  bigbang@alpes-net.fr (Aymeric Leroy)
::WWW::
  

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  Yes
::Admin Address::
  nfte@cms.uncwil.edu
::Moderator Address::
  nfte@cms.uncwil.edu
::Comments::

Yes and Anderson-Bruford-Wakeman-Howe related. Newsletter: `Notes
From The Edge'.

NFTE Server (lyrics, backissues, discography, rarities, surveys,
GIFs): Automated. For help send mail with subject line "send main
help" to yes-archive@meiko.com


               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

::Artist::
  John Zorn
::Admin Address::
  zorn-request@unh.edu
::Moderator Address::
  mpj1@kepler.unh.edu
::Comments::
  This list is for discussion of the composer/musician/producer John
  Zorn, and everything he has been part of. (i.e. Naked City, Praxis,
  Pain Killer, etc...)

               ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                               ---------
                               FTP Sites
                               ---------

The primary FTP site for progressive music related information is:



The directories include: articles, concert reviews, discographies,
interviews, Gibraltar backissues, album reviews, and much more,
including the latest version of these FAQs.

The administrator of the site is Adam Levin and you can reach him at
alevin@ari.net if you have comments, questions, or submissions. Note
that this is a moderated site - you cannot just put files there.

Most of the musical discographies, lyrics, interviews and other
information can be found at:



This site also has a number of mailing list archives and other
information but is not devoted to progressive music and has little
information about more obscure artists.

There also is an ftp site dedicated to ambient and related musics
at:



It is a repository of information about all types of ambient music,
from Eno's "pure" form to droning guitar/psych rock.  It also has a
gopher server.

                     -----------------------------
                     Newsgroups Dedicated to Bands
                     -----------------------------

There are Usenet groups solely dedicated to particular progressive
bands. Below is a selection to give you an idea of the naming
conventions.

Dream Theater (alt.music.dream-theater)
Bela Fleck (alt.music.bela-fleck)
Peter Gabriel (alt.music.peter-gabriel)
Peter Hammill (alt.fan.peter.hammill)
Jethro Tull (alt.music.jethro-tull)
Marillion (alt.music.marillion)
Moody Blues (alt.music.moody-blues)
Phish (rec.music.phish)
Pink Floyd (alt.music.pink-floyd)
Todd Rundgren (alt.music.todd-rundgren)
Rush (alt.music.rush)
Yes (alt.music.yes)

While mentioning these bands in r.m.p is fine, long, drawn-out
discussions of their music should be kept to the appropriate
newsgroup.

                             -------------
                             FTP Via Email
                             -------------

Some sites have no ftp access, or have ftp access that is limited to
local or regional sites.  Fortunately, you can access many FTP sites
via email.

If you ca not FTP from your site, use one of the following
ftp-by-mail servers:

ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com
ftpmail@src.doc.ic.ac.uk
ftpmail@cs.uow.edu.au
ftpmail@grasp.insa-lyon.fr

For complete instructions, send a message reading "help" to the
server.  Note that the word "help" must appear in the body of the
message, not just on the subject line.

                               ---------
                               WWW Pages
                               ---------

This section merely provides pointers to central repositories of
information wherin you will find endless numbers of other links.
Keeping lists of all relevant links is simply not possible in a
finite FAQ.

The *GEPR* (see FAQ 4 and FAQ 7) is now properly on-line at its new
home in the US. There are currently two mirrors, one in Europe and
another in the US. Choose the site nearest to you for the fastest
access.

                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                 Home site (maintained by Mike Taylor)
                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  UK mirror (maintained by Phil Kime)
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                 US mirror (maintained by Adam Levin)
                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Adam Levin also currently runs the progressive music home page that
contains a lot of interesting information including links to other
places. This can be reached at:



This site also maintains a page of links to Web pages detailing many
(some quite obscure) progressive artists. You can even access music
of various lesser known bands. Rather than duplicate all the links
here, you can find them on these pages.

The premier progressive music mailing list, Gibraltar now has a Web
page:



Also, perhaps you would like to look at the Triad Radio Web pages at
URL:



"Triad was a progressive, free-form, innovative radio program that
aired in Chicago on WXFM-FM between 1969 and 1977. There was a lot of
interesting music that went out over the air-waves of Triad on
WXFM-FM 105.9 in the early 70's." (from the Triad Web page).

Henry Potts now maintains the alt.music.yesFAQs online at



                                 ~~~~~
                                 iRock
                                 ~~~~~

iRock is probably the most exciting prog site on the net for new
progressive music.  There are two new iRock shows a week that are
listenable via audio streaming technology from VocalTec. With their
new player client, Internet Wave, one can hear excellent progressive
rock directly off the net if you have a 28.8 connection and TCP/IP.
iRock is now the first Internet Music Radio Station licensed to play
copyright music on the net by ASCAP and BMI.  Take a look and listen
to iRock at:



--------------------
This FAQ is maintained by Phil Kime(Phil.Kime@ed.ac.uk). Comments,
questions, and criticisms are positively always welcome.  This text
was taken in part from the previous versions of this FAQ, which were
maintained by Scott McMahan, and Mike Borella. The FAQs were brought
into being originally through the sterling efforts of Malcolm Humes.
Many thanks go to all of these gentlemen for their excellent
work.
--------------------

###
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